Ceratogyrus wrote: I find the hybridizing thing very interesting actually.
According to some definitions, only individuals within a species can breed. I would love to see if hybrids are fertile (Although i assume they are when looking at C.brachycephalus "hobby form" sold in the states)
Have a read on the hybrid thread. Everyone that decided it was fair to hybridize, were against selling any of the offspring.

Plus, we will all be dead in a year and 1 day any way.

Obviously hybridisation can occur naturally and is part of evolution actually. However I cannot agree with 'forcing' it...

Let's face it, generally the only reason to try hybridise any pet would be to get the 'mystical' Goliath sized P metallica or stuff along those lines and I would suggest that if not for personal satisfaction of getting your 'ideal' T, the only other reason to do it would be for financial gain, am I right or wrong?

Taki wrote:

Ceratogyrus wrote:

Taki wrote: I didn't say they were new species!!! You keep missing my points, things do change and there's every chance that someone will properly describe the whole Poecilotheria species, indeed I believe someone is laready at an advanced stage doing so.....

Then at least use examples that illustrate your point?
Well then we wait for the descriptions. Should be interesting.

I have owned quite a few through the years, and that's why I can tell from first hand experience that the "dark form" in that link is either immature or male.

Would you say that as recently as a year ago people would have bred T stirmi with T blondi?
And yet again, is that a good thing?

Yes, they probably would have.
Still different though. It is not as if they were 2 different spiders then agreed that there were 2 different colour forms of the same species and then seperated again.
Yes, this could happen to the P.subfusca "colour forms", but lets see.
If they are found to be hybrids then I won't sell them. If they are the same species, then I am more than willing to part with a few (IF I am even successful in the first place)

Here is the link to the other topic: www.tarantulas.co.za/forum/tarantula-gen...538-discussion-time-

@Dimitri, could we maybe add this discussion to that thread?
My breeding thread has slightly derailed.

Taki wrote: Obviously hybridisation can occur naturally and is part of evolution actually. However I cannot agree with 'forcing' it...

Let's face it, generally the only reason to try hybridise any pet would be to get the 'mystical' Goliath sized P metallica or stuff along those lines and I would suggest that if not for personal satisfaction of getting your 'ideal' T, the only other reason to do it would be for financial gain, am I right or wrong?

Yes, that is correct. Go read the other thread that I linked in my previous post.
I think that there has probably been natural hybridizing in the past with a few genera, and I find it interesting to see what would happen if 2 different species of a genera were to mix and if the slings are fertile.

F1refly wrote: Politics. This is worse than a Cabinet Meeting. Anyways, I think everyone here is missing the point. The point is that Cerat might be succesful in breeding P. Subfusca's. I for one couldn't give a rats bollocks if a Tarantula is a Hybrid blah blah blah. We aren't going to release them into the wild, the females won't somehow mutate into a different species and it is the breeders choice to do what he wants. If he want's to breed G. rosea NCF and RCF then let him do it. It's his choice. He owns them so get over yourselves. If Cerat is going to breed the "Highland" and "Lowland" forms together then let him do it.

We also seem to fail to rememeber that there are countless animals that occur all over the world and while they may look different they are in fact the same species.
Ignore these purists Cerat. There is no evidence to suggest they are not different species.
@Taki: Um clearly Ceratogyrus owns 1 or 2 as he is going to attempt to breed with them. Still he owns more than you so he has more experience than you with this species.

Please people, this is the reason this site has been so dormant for so long. I see maybe five posts a day these days. Can't we just stop all this fighting?

This thread, and WHOLE FORUM for that matter is dedicated to DEBATING, and that is exactly what is going on here, a good clean debate to keep the brain cells active, something the youth dont seem to grasp is the difference between a debate and an argument.

F1refly wrote:
Please people, this is the reason this site has been so dormant for so long. I see maybe five posts a day these days. Can't we just stop all this fighting?

The reason for this is most of the people are on holidays or not at work.

and it has been ages since we have had a good old debate regarding spiders!
Very interesting topic.

arachnophiles.myfreeforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7385

www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?...-P-subfusca-question

Bottom line is no one knows and no hard facts.... all speculations at this point...

There is the size difference and colour difference between the two....
If they are bread I think its the breeders responsibility to Clearly state that it is a highland and lowland mix [poecilotheria subfusca] and that he does not condone hybrids etc.
They should be sold as poecilotheria subfusca mix I feel they are different thou and should not be mixed and also i want some on the market thou im torn..... cos I have no evidence to prove they are different... other than these pictures I don't see how they can come from the same sac...