I do support trying to implement measures to aid in limiting certain species in circulation and avoid market flooding, but getting a rare T I have always wanted for cheap is also a good thing?! There is a fine line I guess between flooding and making T's affordable for all. I do support listing Ts on the verge of market flooding as a minimum measure.

But could it be that looking at this approved breeders list from other peoples view point it might seem like people want to protect their income by creating their own "Breeder Approval Bureau"?

Say I as a hobbyist & forum member want to breed a certain species for my own enjoyment,experience & hopefully sell of my slings if I am successful. How could I do this without this approved breeder list affecting me negatively? surely people will be more reluctant to buy from me on the site plus I will most probably never become an approved breeder because very little people will support me!? Its not that I want to breed for an income, but I would like to one day say I have bred a T and not sit with 200 slings no one wants to buy because I am not approved by the Bureau...

I dont really see the big issue here. Yes the market is severly overflooded with certain species. but honestly, if you dont have the common sense to do a bit a market research before throwing a pair into the boxing ring you deserve the misfortune of sitting with excess stock.

I personally get a cick out of breeding spiders, i dont do it for money but 99% of breeders do do it for money, once you are doing anything for money you are in effect operating a business (weather legally or illegaly) and the single most important objective of ANY business is to create profit- Therefore: research your target market so you can move stock! It's not rocket science.

If people did NOT breed simply because they have a pair of P. irmnia's (im just using imrinia as an example, not a personal attack HS) we wouldn't be here today and its starting to seem like lots of hobbyists have forgotten the original beauty of this hobby. We are SO fortunate to have the opportunity to glance at extremely EXOTIC animals from all corners of the globe just by popping into another room, that in itself fascinates me beyond belief. We are so quick to breed ANY pair we happen to have.

A word of advice to anyone sitting with excess stock of a now common specie: Drop your prices and interest will grow. It's just a case of putting your pride in your pocket and flogging an irminia sling for R10 if it means creating a new hobbyist who will bring more capital into the hobby in the future. Give stock away too, at this stage, keeping 100 common slings IS COSTING YOU MONEY.

Thants my 2c :happy:

Really, if a guy doesn't want to pay 80 bucks (2 packs of smokes) for a P irminia he either doesn't want one, has one( or more), or doesn't have the facilities to take care of one (space, roaches, experience whatever). You can drop prices as far as you want, it will not help. People are not stupid. I buy your spiders for cheap now because you can't get them sold, and sit with the same problem later, but taking up way more resources as spiders grow. You won't be able to give them away for free.

I understand the frustration of sitting on 200+ slings. But really, chucking in 2 or 3 roaches every 2 weeks or less to keep them ticking over isn't such big pita? Should be something you had to have considered and anticipated before you mated the spiders? Same as having enough deli cups, shelf space, roaches?
(Or 20 000 slings if you're a serious breeder, but same logic counts, you should be set up for this.)

The whole process runs in cycles.
As you know, T's take a while between mating and when you start counting slings(if at all), and that period depends largely on the female. Take H maculata. Couple of months ago there were too many, now you can't find any. So, pairing H maculata a couple of months ago when they were in abundance (and people were saying not to breed them) would not have been a bad idea.
First guy to have H mac slings now wins. Second sack less so and third sack sits with the slings. The saturation limit is that low.

Problem is the hobby is maturing, there are more sacks at irregular intervals, and new sacks overlap with old stock, so supply won't drop off. This is not because of irresponsible breeders, fly by nights, people in it for the money. This is because enthusiasts will do what enthusiasts do. It is inevitable.

This drive for soft regulation of the breeders is commendable ito hopefully discouraging fly by nights, but it doesn't really speak to the issue of oversupply. Enthusiasts will breed spiders. Not all of us, but it is a big part of the hobby.

Times are changing for the hobby. We, the hobby, need to adapt as well and grow with the changes. We cannot keep people from breeding spiders, so the only option left is to expand the hobby.

My 2c (not including Saturday overtime : )

(I'm also not attacking anybody. Just talking in general).

Some really good input from everyone here, this is really something that needs good discussion and the raising of points and issues so we can get as many people's viewpoint on the matter as possible.

Thanks everyone for keeping it civil, professional and on topic.

I don't think the goal is to keep people from breeding spiders, just make them aware that X,Y,Z has been bred so if i breed the same i'm gonna have issues, in addition it makes things simpler to grow the hobby cause you would be able to see where you can get what.

It has been mentioned several times that pet shops only have limited stock, where do you turn when you would like to acquire a new "pet" a pet store and then you learn later that there are many different and rare spidies out there that you would like to purchase, how do you go about this. If like me you start researching and drive your ass off only to be conned. This puts new enthusiasts off.

To grow we need to make information more accessible to everyone and this process would make things simpler for new members and also help us grow the hobby. that is ultimately the goal right?

Ok so we are headed in the good direction. We need to compile a kind of task list of what we need to achieve this goal.

Is everyone happy with a "List" of breeders to be compiled as a page on this site? Then users would be aloud to rate and comment on each breeders page?

How do we list each breeder? Do we get permission from each one who wants to be listed or do get names for all the breeders people have purchased from and name them ourselves? Should the page include a full profile of the breeder? Picture etc so people know what they look like or this going taking it too far?

Do we include pet shops in this list?

Just throwing out some ideas.