Hi,

for scientific purposes, I have had the opportunity to collect some wild specimens of Pterinochilus species (Golden Brown Baboon Spider)in the past. I have also had the opportunity to observe the SA species of Pterinochilus in captivity, including slings...

Now, my understanding is that all African "tarantulas" are referred to as Baboon Spiders. Anything from outside SA borders is considered an exotic with reference to SA. I mean, a tarantula from Mexico is equally as exotic as a Baboon spider from Zimbabwe - not so? It is another country and therefore exotic...

Anyway, my observations were the following:

The SA species of Pterinochilus is no where near as aggressive as OBT's
The colouration is also duller than that of OBT - including slings.

My conclusion is the following:

The original stock of OBT's which have resulted in all the stock you see in Pet Shops is stock from outside that of South Africa. So therefore in my opinion, these spiders should be considered "exotic"and because there is NO legislation preventing the importation of exotic tarantulas, in my opinion, OBT's should be legal...

collecting and selling the local Pterinochilus species, now that is illegal - but I would argue that OBT's are not local (SA).

I mean, if OBT's are illegal, then Hercules etc etc must also then be considered illegal to keep?

just some observations...

I have the same argument for Ceratogyrus species...

For me, a tarantula/baboon spider found outside of South Africa is considered an exotic and according to SA legislation, there is no law preventing the importation of exotic spiders...I guess the trick is to prove that the specimen comes from outside the borders of SA.

...

Dude. Its the law. Deal with it!
If a gravid Pterinochilus murinus had to escape somewhere where a local species lives it would wipe out that species within 20 years in that area IMO. They grow faster than the local species, they are more aggressive. The same with Ceratogyrus. Do you really want hybrid Ceratogyrus taking over areas where pure blood Ceratogyrus exist? You are seeing this from your own (money making) view. Try step back and have another look. Its the law, so stick to it. And yes, i work for nature conservation.

Let me just put something in perspective here

Our hobby is not a "legal" hobby yet (as with exotic snakes for example) and in provinces like the Western Cape NO tarantulas are allowed, albeit local or exotic, because they see it as a threat to the local biodiversity of fauna.

Our FIRST point of call in our hobby should be to get it legalised, but im sad to say at the current trend of people illegally keeping local species and OBT's, i dont see any Government institution taking us seriously.

If we cannot show them that through responsible tarantula keeping we can obey the CURRENT laws (whether we agree or not) how will they ever have faith in us that when legislation is passed regarding exotic species, we will actually stick to it.

and +1 for Rayman. The OBT's growth rate, sack size and aggresive nature, coupled with the fact that they will survive in our climate, make them a very real threat to our local species. Where they escape/are released they will merely systematically decimate our local baboon spiders, and who knows what other effect their prolific propagation can have on the rest of the local food chain!

Laws are not made (or changed for that matter) just for the heck of it.

We are technically still busy with an illegal hobby - so sticking to laws already stipulated should be the least we can do to prove that we can be trusted with these wonderful creatures, and that we will take that which is said seriously.

If i look like countries like Britain where the hobby has garnered respect through the conduct of the tarantula community, i can only HOPE we will one day reach that stage too.

I have had dealings with NatCon, and can just say it will go a long way if more people will show them that we respect the laws AND do our part to keep them.

Thats AYOBA

Thanx raven.
Not that it matters much, but i would love to know what species of Pterinochilus you found?

scorpion wrote:

Hi,

for scientific purposes, I have had the opportunity to collect some wild specimens of Pterinochilus species (Golden Brown Baboon Spider)in the past. I have also had the opportunity to observe the SA species of Pterinochilus in captivity, including slings...

Now, my understanding is that all African "tarantulas" are referred to as Baboon Spiders. Anything from outside SA borders is considered an exotic with reference to SA. I mean, a tarantula from Mexico is equally as exotic as a Baboon spider from Zimbabwe - not so? It is another country and therefore exotic...

Anyway, my observations were the following:

The SA species of Pterinochilus is no where near as aggressive as OBT's
The colouration is also duller than that of OBT - including slings.

My conclusion is the following:

The original stock of OBT's which have resulted in all the stock you see in Pet Shops is stock from outside that of South Africa. So therefore in my opinion, these spiders should be considered "exotic"and because there is NO legislation preventing the importation of exotic tarantulas, in my opinion, OBT's should be legal...

collecting and selling the local Pterinochilus species, now that is illegal - but I would argue that OBT's are not local (SA).

I mean, if OBT's are illegal, then Hercules etc etc must also then be considered illegal to keep?

just some observations...

Ok, now that im awake, i read your argument again.
Firstly, like i said, i would love to know what species of Pterinochilus you found here in sa.
Secondly, a spider from mexico is much more exotic than one from zimbabwe. Different continents, temperatures, humidity, conditions, predators, the list goes on. There is a much better chance that a spider from zimbabwe could survive in the wild in sa than one from mexico.
Thirdly, you said obt's were more aggressive than the locals. As both myself and raven stated, that causes major problems if they were to escape and threaten local populations of our own baboon spiders.
Fourthly, there are laws against importing of spiders hence the need for permits to do it.
And lastly, yes, H.gigas are also african, but require higher humidity than found in most places of south africa and much warmer all year conditions where they are found, so chances are they will not survive in sa if they were to get out.
That should do it. Any other money making arguments you have?