Can a spider's (tarantula's) eyesight be considered as good? How much brains has it got to remember or recognize its owner voice? That throws the TAME issue out the back door!

well many things we human thought we knew cause we are "so smart" has turned out to be something totally different and unexpected, we have placed ourselves as the ultimate creation, when in fact we have no idea what that actually means. We can only make a educated guess what is going on but we can never be 100% sure can we? 50 years ago people thought animals had no feelings, go back another 50 and the world has just become round for many!

Anyways imo, something that will eat its own young or mate, is a good indication that there is no such thing as attachments in this family

Halfniak wrote: ... I was on Junkmail looking at t's people sell and just looking up general info on t's through google and every now and then saw someone referring to rosea, smithi or whatever the case may be as "tamed". ...

Everybody has a different definition of what "tame" means. And, the arguments usually devolve into "my beliefs," "your beliefs," "someone else's beliefs" etc. I emphasize beliefs because I wouldn't dream of tampering with anybody's beliefs. It's like tampering with their religion! Having said that, however, I am willing to discuss factual instances and circumstances.

Halfniak wrote: ... I think they are mostly pre-programmed animals that can not become tamed, learn to identify their owner, etc, but just wanted to know the opinion of members on whether
they do have the capacity to become more used to handling or tamer. ...

We have experience with many instances where tarantulas may or may not have learned to recognize us, but surely were able to recognize feeding time! When we opened the cage lids, we got instant attention from any number of Brachypelma albopilosum (curlyhair tarantula), B. smithi (Mexican redknee tarantula), and a number of other species. Adults would almost instantly switch to alert mode as evidenced by a change in body stance, and turn to face the exposed end of the cage where the food always came from. And, they would often walk over to inspect that end of the cage while we still had the cover open and before we dropped in the crickets. We've even had them climb up to the top of the cage and wait for us to pop in the crickets!

And, we've had any number of B. albopilosum babies that, upon our opening their container, would run out onto our hand (forefinger and thumb encircling the mouth of small bottles, for instance), circle the mouth of the bottle, and make a swan dive at the baby crickets that we just threw into the bottle. They acted like 6 mm hawks nailing a rat or a rabbit!

The point is that they had changed the "pre-programming" that you and others have alluded to. They had learned to recognize an abstract, unnatural set of stimuli (the cage or bottle lid opening), and either had altered a pre-existing set of habit patterns, or had adopted a completely new set of responses and linked them to the aforementioned abstract, unnatural stimuli, and only to those stimuli.

And they were very cute when they did this, too! :laugh: :silly:

In handling our tarantulas (Marguerite and I made a habit of at least trying to handle virtually ever species we could acquire. How else would one know what their true temperaments were?), we noticed that most New World species and a few Old World ones would settle down after being picked up several times (this varied with the species and the sex), to the point where many of the so-called "pet rocks" actually seemed to like to be handled. They wouldn't bolt or run. If anything, they would simply relax or even pull their legs closer to their bodies to make picking them up easier. Again, these fabulous creatures learned to suppress the classic fight or flight instinct, and substituted a completely unnatural, submissive, even complicit response.

Halfniak wrote: ... I dont like handling my tarantulas, primarily because if they unexpectedly run, whirl or bite me I am going to skrik and jerk and send it flying, ...

And, the discussions of handling tarantulas on this and other forums has been known to develop into flame wars that rivaled several of the world's more violent civil wars! However, having said that, I am compelled to unequivocally state that 90% of the people who handle their tarantulas DO NOT do so properly, thus needlessly endangering their prized pets.

If you are that hypertensive about your tarantulas, it's probably best that you don't handle them. However, it is also imperative that you learn safe methods for manipulating your tarantulas for those times when they must be moved to different caging, inspected for injury or disease, for breeding, etc. You should learn techniques that do not endanger the tarantula because of your anxieties.

Halfniak wrote: ... but it would be interesting to have a better understanding of how they can and can not adapt to their environment, what they can remember, get used to, etc..

A lot more than most enthusiasts give them credit for! As an example, if you have an adult or near adult tarantula, try giving it a ping pong ball to play with. Yes, they do indeed like to roll a ping pong ball around their cage, and coincidentally scare the c**p out of you, in the middle of the night!

Enjoy your little 8-legged bundle of joy!

Stanley, can you provide us with the correct way of handling a T?

@ Stanley. It is very true regarding the feeding. All my C.cyaneopubescens will scurry and look over and under any nook and cranny for food items, even if I have just opened up their enclosure to water their bowls. With captive breeding they have adapted with "when enclosure moves and lid opens it's feeding time", and their response is proof of that.

While I think that the word "tamed" is misleading, I can definitely relate some of my experiences with my T's that have led me to believe that they do notice their enviroments and they do take notice of things that occur around them regularly.

As Stanley said below, feeding time is definitely one of those times and this I have noticed. Unusually, my N. chromatus always attacks her water bowl when I top it up. The tiny new L. parahybana I have also seems to notice me when I open it's enclosure to mist the substrate.

As for handling my T's, I do not do this for my own reasons. But my juvenile P. regalis and P. ornata specimens often sit on the side of their enclosures while I work inside them, cleaning and maintaining their enviroments. They seem to know that I am not there to disturb them and there appears to be an unspoken agreement of peace between us. They have had ample opportunities to run from the enclosures while the doors are open and make my life difficult in having to track them down again, yet not one has done this to date.

As to taming by handling, I believe that T's do take notice of their enviroments as stated above. I am of the opinion that they can very well get used to being handled as they will become more and more familiar with your scent and the feeling of your skin. It could become a second enviroment for them if you would call it that, something that they also become more familiar as they are exposed more and more to it.

I do not believe that a "tame" tarantula is anything like a tame cat or dog however. We must always remember that we are dealing with wild creatures, genetically programmed to be hunters and killers. We must always be cautious and treat them with the respect that they deserve, which includes not making assumptions about their behaviours in my opinion.

Remember the guys who was mauled by the "tame" tiger? The same thing applies to T's. They are naturally hunters and we cannot expect that their genetic makeup to suddenly change by being exposed to handling.

Just my 2c worth to add to the discussion.